Meeting Minutes for 1 July 2007

Jul 01 15:01:01 <EvilBob>    <meeting>
Jul 01 15:01:19 <EvilBob>    OK a couple updates
Jul 01 15:01:52 <EvilBob>    1 we have no new info from Corwyn's friend so we need to move forward on our own
Jul 01 15:02:09 <Corwyn>    !
Jul 01 15:02:29 <EvilBob>    Corwyn: GA
Jul 01 15:02:49 <Corwyn>    She's been busy with work and such, she's worked as hard as she can with what time she has free, but we did set a deadline, and we have reached it
Jul 01 15:03:02 <Corwyn>    so I'll be moving on with the Freedom software foundation
Jul 01 15:03:13 <Corwyn>    eof
Jul 01 15:03:29 <EvilBob>    2 we will want to look at and discuss http://www.softwarefreedom.org/ to see how it fits with us
Jul 01 15:03:44 <Corwyn>    that's what I meant
Jul 01 15:04:09 <EvilBob>    3 I want to set a hard deadline for getting the NPO setup or at the very least a fair amount of the work done by Aug 15
Jul 01 15:04:49 <daMaestro>    !
Jul 01 15:04:49 <EvilBob>    and when I say hard I mean it no more screwing around, lets make time if we need to to get things going
Jul 01 15:05:02 *    CheekyBoinc (n=foobar@p50920F34.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #Fedora-Unity
Jul 01 15:05:26 <EvilBob>    4 kanarip is now a member of the Fedora Unity Board our 7th member
Jul 01 15:06:10 <EvilBob>    the Fedora UNity "founders" wil become our NPO Board ad the NPO develops
Jul 01 15:06:14 <EvilBob>    daMaestro: GA
Jul 01 15:06:17 <daMaestro>    I've always been willing to look at things, what we need to do is just at least get a channel of communication with SFO. I wanted to get this started last week.. no matter what it will be good to get with them and see what they would be able to offer us. EOF
Jul 01 15:07:09 <EvilBob>    OK looking at the software Freedom site does anyone see anything that is a concern for them?
Jul 01 15:07:20 <Corwyn>    not yet
Jul 01 15:07:34 <EvilBob>    I have looked at it some not as completely as I wanted to
Jul 01 15:07:52 <kanarip>    i'm not seeing anything that could trouble us
Jul 01 15:08:02 <EvilBob>    K
Jul 01 15:08:12 <kanarip>    in fact, samba uses their services including financial and administration
Jul 01 15:08:17 <EvilBob>    one thing that we need to talk about is our task list
Jul 01 15:08:55 <EvilBob>    #1 on the task list is commercial hosting, I have pinged warren several times and gotten no reply
Jul 01 15:09:02 <daMaestro>    !
Jul 01 15:09:06 <EvilBob>    daMaestro: GA
Jul 01 15:09:12 <kanarip>    !
Jul 01 15:09:48 <daMaestro>    because of the way that issue was dealt with, we need to consider that offer dissolved; it might reappear as a donation to the NPO
Jul 01 15:09:56 <daMaestro>    this might be better in the end.
Jul 01 15:10:10 <daMaestro>    i'm close to buying a server and sticking it at calpop.com
Jul 01 15:10:14 <kanarip>    !!!
Jul 01 15:10:23 <daMaestro>    (close as in.... let's talk with kanarip)
Jul 01 15:10:23 <daMaestro>    lol
Jul 01 15:10:24 <daMaestro>    EOF
Jul 01 15:10:30 <kanarip>    i have two boxes
Jul 01 15:10:30 <EvilBob>    kanarip: GA
Jul 01 15:10:43 <kanarip>    use those if you need a box, and host them whereever
Jul 01 15:10:51 <daMaestro>    kanarip, yeah.. but for how much shipping would be... we could just buy another box
Jul 01 15:10:52 <daMaestro>    lol
Jul 01 15:10:58 <kanarip>    shipping them to the US will be cheaper then buying another two
Jul 01 15:11:26 *    daMaestro puts up for the record: http://calpop.com/colocation.html
Jul 01 15:11:28 <EvilBob>    maybe
Jul 01 15:11:45 <daMaestro>    it sucks, because there will be no on hand support for hardware issues.
Jul 01 15:11:57 <daMaestro>    but i've looked in denver, co ... and there is *nothing* with the amount of bandwidth we need
Jul 01 15:12:26 <kanarip>    ok i'm not gonna bother with hosting it overhere anymore
Jul 01 15:12:29 <daMaestro>    i'm spending ~$40/month as it is.. if unity picks up the other ~$50/month .. we can have a really nice system @ calpop
Jul 01 15:12:39 <daMaestro>    kanarip, details?
Jul 01 15:12:41 <kanarip>    but at least consider existing hardware before committing to buy new stuff
Jul 01 15:13:30 <EvilBob>    kanarip: EOF?
Jul 01 15:13:43 <kanarip>    yeah, sorry, EOF
Jul 01 15:13:58 <EvilBob>    thanks, did not want to move on if you were not done
Jul 01 15:14:47 <EvilBob>    can the three of us, daMaestro kanarip and me meet on tuesday about 23:00 UTC to see what all our options are?
Jul 01 15:14:59 <daMaestro>    !
Jul 01 15:15:04 <EvilBob>    daMaestro: GA
Jul 01 15:15:29 <daMaestro>    i see no reason a meeting is necessary, we have had a whiteboard on this topic @ basecamp since day one (of basecamp)
Jul 01 15:15:34 <daMaestro>    EOF
Jul 01 15:15:44 <kanarip>    !
Jul 01 15:15:51 <EvilBob>    kanarip: GA
Jul 01 15:15:58 <kanarip>    23 UTC is 1 AM...
Jul 01 15:16:05 <EvilBob>    eeek
Jul 01 15:16:11 <kanarip>    can we like have it one hour earlier maybe?
Jul 01 15:16:34 <EvilBob>    I can't be sure I will be home yet at that time
Jul 01 15:16:54 *    daMaestro makes a point this is why we have been using the whiteboard
Jul 01 15:16:54 <kanarip>    hmm, well we'll see, it's ok
Jul 01 15:17:06 <EvilBob>    kanarip: I will try
Jul 01 15:17:30 <kanarip>    OEF
Jul 01 15:18:06 <EvilBob>    OK anything else on the task list ?
Jul 01 15:18:43 <daMaestro>    !
Jul 01 15:19:08 <EvilBob>    daMaestro: GA
Jul 01 15:19:12 *    daMaestro asks for the floor to go over the task list so we can update the items and close items as needed
Jul 01 15:19:30 <EvilBob>    GA
Jul 01 15:19:51 <Corwyn>    +1
Jul 01 15:20:01 <daMaestro>    # Move Unity Sites to Dedicated Commercial Server
Jul 01 15:20:02 <daMaestro>        * DATE DUE: TBD
Jul 01 15:20:02 <daMaestro>        * ASSIGNED: Server-Team
Jul 01 15:20:02 <daMaestro>              o NOTES: daMaestro will move all Unity sites to a dedicated comercial server. Details forthcoming.
Jul 01 15:20:02 <daMaestro>              o 1: Investigate the cost of the move.
Jul 01 15:20:05 <daMaestro>              o 2: Decide what needs to be moved.
Jul 01 15:20:07 <daMaestro>              o 3: Implement a plan for the move and inform the community.
Jul 01 15:20:09 <daMaestro>              o 4: Establish the jigdo server and hubs.
Jul 01 15:20:11 <daMaestro>              o 5: Begin the migration at a scheduled date and time to be determined with item 3.
Jul 01 15:20:13 <daMaestro>    !
Jul 01 15:20:28 *    daMaestro gives daMaestro the floor
Jul 01 15:20:29 <daMaestro>    lol
Jul 01 15:20:34 <EvilBob>    We just talked about this
Jul 01 15:20:37 <daMaestro>    ok, this seems like we are going to have another meeting for this
Jul 01 15:20:44 <daMaestro>    please update this task with the meeting time
Jul 01 15:20:46 <daMaestro>    EOF
Jul 01 15:20:54 <daMaestro>    # Setup Non-Profit Organization
Jul 01 15:20:54 <daMaestro>        * DATE DUE: 2007-May-20
Jul 01 15:20:54 <daMaestro>        * ASSIGNED: Unity-Leaders
Jul 01 15:20:54 <daMaestro>              o NOTES: Get the papers filed for setting up a non-profit organization for Fedora Unity. Andrea is pulling the paperwork and documentation together for this with Bob. Even if filed now, not expected to be approved before 01-JAN-2007. Bob is working on hiring someone to get this done. Waiting on word from lawyer.
Jul 01 15:20:55 <daMaestro>    !
Jul 01 15:21:00 *    daMaestro gives daMaestro the floor
Jul 01 15:21:24 <daMaestro>    so, it seems this needs to be updated to reflect that steve is working on it and we are trying to work with http://www.softwarefreedom.org/
Jul 01 15:21:26 <daMaestro>    EOF
Jul 01 15:21:32 <daMaestro>    # Create new content type for templates, other plone related
Jul 01 15:21:33 <daMaestro>        * DATE DUE: 2007-May-20
Jul 01 15:21:33 <daMaestro>        * ASSIGNED: Server-Team
Jul 01 15:21:33 <daMaestro>              o NOTES: Jon is working on this. Include Develop Unity workflow and state change notification. Edit Team needs to work with Server-Team to get this completed. updated the unity team tracker to include any notes Jon has.
Jul 01 15:21:37 <daMaestro>    !
Jul 01 15:21:39 *    daMaestro gives daMaestro the floor
Jul 01 15:21:53 <daMaestro>    so, this task is dependent on the dedicated server task
Jul 01 15:22:04 <daMaestro>    i would really prefer to not even start work on it till we get our hosting fixed up
Jul 01 15:22:15 <daMaestro>    also, plone 3 is going to do a lot of what we have wanted in the past
Jul 01 15:22:16 <daMaestro>    EOF
Jul 01 15:22:26 <daMaestro>    # Automate testing of ISO's
Jul 01 15:22:26 <daMaestro>        * DATE DUE: 2007-May-20
Jul 01 15:22:26 <daMaestro>        * ASSIGNED: Testing-Team
Jul 01 15:22:27 <daMaestro>              o NOTES: Create an automated testing process and scripts for the testing of respin ISO's. Script posted, needs more testing. Also needs Will Wood to go over script. Jigdo being worked out to provide a method of ftp or http download. Jon and Bob working with RHTS/Beaker for automated testing.
Jul 01 15:22:31 <daMaestro>    !
Jul 01 15:22:33 *    daMaestro gives daMaestro the floor
Jul 01 15:22:37 <daMaestro>    kanarip, do you have anything to add to this?
Jul 01 15:22:46 <daMaestro>    i would think we need to reset this task
Jul 01 15:22:57 <kanarip>    yeah, let's no longer wait for RHTS and/or beaker...
Jul 01 15:23:02 <daMaestro>    document we need to have a list of test, how to test them and what constitutes a failure
Jul 01 15:23:07 <kanarip>    just try and get something working
Jul 01 15:23:17 <daMaestro>    ok... this means we need to get tests defined
Jul 01 15:23:30 <daMaestro>    jigdo is nice, we now also have deltaiso support
Jul 01 15:23:43 <kanarip>    i can get tests defined
Jul 01 15:23:47 <daMaestro>    jigdo is good for getting a full image, deltaiso is nice if you have the GOLD image
Jul 01 15:23:49 <daMaestro>    kanarip, +1
Jul 01 15:24:06 <daMaestro>    kanarip, we need; what test, why, how, what passes, what fails, etc
Jul 01 15:24:09 <daMaestro>    kanarip, you know ;-)
Jul 01 15:24:10 <daMaestro>    lol
Jul 01 15:24:10 <kanarip>    yes
Jul 01 15:24:16 <daMaestro>    EvilBob, any input?
Jul 01 15:24:35 <EvilBob>    daMaestro: been working with KVM this weekend
Jul 01 15:24:38 *    daMaestro proposes we roll the next task and this one into a single test
Jul 01 15:24:43 <daMaestro>    # Determine testing standards
Jul 01 15:24:43 <daMaestro>        * DATE DUE: TBD
Jul 01 15:24:43 <daMaestro>        * ASSIGNED: Testing-Team
Jul 01 15:24:43 <daMaestro>              o NOTES: Setup a committee to document the testing standards for re-spin automation.
Jul 01 15:24:49 <EvilBob>    daMaestro: I think that it may work very well
Jul 01 15:24:52 <EvilBob>    !
Jul 01 15:24:53 <daMaestro>    EvilBob, ok.. cool
Jul 01 15:24:58 *    daMaestro gives EvilBob the floor
Jul 01 15:25:23 <Corwyn>    +1
Jul 01 15:25:40 <EvilBob>    I have the basic lists of tests down, need to work with Jon this week to get the format the way he wants
Jul 01 15:25:44 <daMaestro>    s/test/task/ ;-)
Jul 01 15:25:50 <daMaestro>    EvilBob, work with kanarip
Jul 01 15:25:54 <EvilBob>    OK
Jul 01 15:25:56 <daMaestro>    cool.
Jul 01 15:26:02 <daMaestro>    # Back-ups!! Back-ups!! Back-ups!!
Jul 01 15:26:02 <daMaestro>        * DATE DUE: ON-GOING
Jul 01 15:26:02 <daMaestro>        * ASSIGNED: Server-Team
Jul 01 15:26:02 <daMaestro>              o NOTES: Perform Server Backups!!
Jul 01 15:26:04 <daMaestro>    !!!
Jul 01 15:26:04 <EvilBob>    will not have time until wednesday
Jul 01 15:26:07 *    daMaestro give daMaestro the floor
Jul 01 15:26:11 <daMaestro>    ok.. this is automated now
Jul 01 15:26:23 <daMaestro>    we do need to add some things to the script, but we basically have daily backups
Jul 01 15:26:26 <daMaestro>    *offsite
Jul 01 15:26:36 <EvilBob>    !
Jul 01 15:26:39 *    daMaestro give daMaestro the floor
Jul 01 15:26:42 <daMaestro>    grrrr
Jul 01 15:26:46 *    daMaestro gives EvilBob the floor
Jul 01 15:27:15 <EvilBob>    daMaestro: OK one thing I wanted to ask you about is infrastructure reelated
Jul 01 15:27:25 <daMaestro>    sure
Jul 01 15:27:42 <EvilBob>    do you understand and know how the proxy and app server system works for Fedora?
Jul 01 15:27:48 <daMaestro>    sure
Jul 01 15:28:01 <daMaestro>    s/sure/yes/
Jul 01 15:28:15 <kanarip>    it's a 'sure i know' setup, so ;-)
Jul 01 15:28:25 <EvilBob>    daMaestro: OK was just something I was thinkingabout on friday
Jul 01 15:29:01 <daMaestro>    i am consulting for the infrastructure team on how to setup zope on such a system
Jul 01 15:29:20 <EvilBob>    daMaestro: when we start shopping around for hosting long term maybe a distributed network of systems might be something we could deal with
Jul 01 15:29:35 <EvilBob>    daMaestro: just ideas
Jul 01 15:29:40 <EvilBob>    EOF
Jul 01 15:29:47 <daMaestro>    well... no, we don't have access to the network hardware to make such a system possible
Jul 01 15:30:00 <daMaestro>    the amount of money a carrier will charge you for such as system is sky high
Jul 01 15:30:31 <daMaestro>    distributed inner data center.. well sure, if we have the money
Jul 01 15:31:02 <daMaestro>    but being able to allow anyone to throw in hardware for our sites in a similar way torrent works.. well it could be done; but we need some carrier level hardware that we are never going to get
Jul 01 15:31:10 <daMaestro>    # Draft a Backup Policy
Jul 01 15:31:10 <daMaestro>        * DATE DUE: 2007-APR-29
Jul 01 15:31:10 <daMaestro>        * ASSIGNED: Server-Team
Jul 01 15:31:10 <daMaestro>              o NOTES: Draft a policy for backing up the servers and a disaster recovery plan. This needs to be in place and tested ASAP. Plan is in place, scripts still need testing. Backups being done manually for now, scripts still in process. Jon has a way to backup Zope DB live. VMWare backups still being scripted by Bob. Backups are working.
Jul 01 15:31:23 <daMaestro>    well.. all the configs are saved in the daily backup
Jul 01 15:31:33 <daMaestro>    afaik, we don't do full VM backups
Jul 01 15:32:12 <daMaestro>    the backup policy is pretty much: "daily backups of all critical data, sync'd off site"
Jul 01 15:32:35 <daMaestro>    the data being backed up is open for discussion... it is just a shell script that runs and add data to the off site sync point
Jul 01 15:32:42 <daMaestro>    any questions/comments?
Jul 01 15:32:50 <Corwyn>    none from me
Jul 01 15:32:57 <EvilBob>    not at this time
Jul 01 15:33:08 <Corwyn>    shall we close this item?
Jul 01 15:33:11 <daMaestro>    +1
Jul 01 15:33:25 <EvilBob>    +1
Jul 01 15:33:28 <kanarip>    +1
Jul 01 15:33:38 <daMaestro>       2. Document Server configs and setup process
Jul 01 15:33:38 <EvilBob>    </meeting>
Jul 01 15:33:38 <daMaestro>              * DATE DUE: 2007-APR-29
Jul 01 15:33:38 <daMaestro>              * ASSIGNED: Server-Team
Jul 01 15:33:38 <daMaestro>                    o NOTES: Document all progress on the sites as this work is completed so we have the history! In Process on Gobby. Nothing new as of 3 Dec 2006. In process, security review being performed by Jon to be sure we are not putting Fedora Unity at risk.
Jul 01 15:33:47 <daMaestro>    i propose we close that task also
Jul 01 15:33:50 <EvilBob>    oops
Jul 01 15:33:56 <daMaestro>    *every* config that makes our site hum is backed up
Jul 01 15:34:07 <Corwyn>    ?
Jul 01 15:34:09 <kanarip>    daMaestro, i'd appreciate SOP
Jul 01 15:34:15 <daMaestro>    kanarip, ?
Jul 01 15:34:17 <daMaestro>    Corwyn, GA
Jul 01 15:34:24 *    daMaestro open floor
Jul 01 15:34:30 <kanarip>    daMaestro, Standard Operating Procedure
Jul 01 15:34:52 <daMaestro>    kanarip, i don't follow.. what do you want me to do?
Jul 01 15:35:13 <daMaestro>    kanarip, cronjob a runs at X:00PM and goes to server B?
Jul 01 15:35:13 <daMaestro>    lol
Jul 01 15:35:24 <daMaestro>    it's all automated, i don't think about it.. at all
Jul 01 15:35:26 <Corwyn>    the purpose of this item was not just for getting backups done or getting the configs backed up, but a process documented so anyone of us can bring the sites back up if anything were to happen to Jon, ie: quitting the project, hospitalization, etc
Jul 01 15:35:36 <Corwyn>    I think we need to keep this one and get it done
Jul 01 15:35:41 <kanarip>    not necessarily you, but the server team has gotta know what design considerations are behind, for example, the LDAP tree layout
Jul 01 15:35:47 <daMaestro>    cd / && tar -zxvf /path/to/the/backup
Jul 01 15:35:48 <daMaestro>    lol
Jul 01 15:36:01 <daMaestro>    LDAP is going to be redone on the new server
Jul 01 15:36:04 <daMaestro>    but sure
Jul 01 15:36:13 <daMaestro>    ok.. keep this open, kanarip: i would love help with this
Jul 01 15:36:30 <EvilBob>    next?
Jul 01 15:36:35 <kanarip>    those would at a minimum just be short notes and quick pointers
Jul 01 15:36:36 <daMaestro>    we are going to be redesigning a *lot* of the sites
Jul 01 15:36:47 <daMaestro>    and i mean a complete overhaul
Jul 01 15:36:56 <Corwyn>    that's fine
Jul 01 15:36:59 <kanarip>    just so you don't have to find / -type f -exec cat {} \; | grep -i ldap
Jul 01 15:37:00 <daMaestro>    does anyone object to merging all of the sites into one?
Jul 01 15:37:06 <EvilBob>    Yes I do
Jul 01 15:37:09 <Corwyn>    we still need to get things documented incase of emergency
Jul 01 15:37:14 <daMaestro>    sure. ok.
Jul 01 15:37:16 <daMaestro>    EvilBob, why?
Jul 01 15:37:27 <kanarip>    daMaestro, i kinda object too
Jul 01 15:37:41 <daMaestro>    excuse me.. fu.o would stay separate
Jul 01 15:37:48 <daMaestro>    all of the content sites would be one
Jul 01 15:37:57 <kanarip>    i wanna hear the idea... but it doesn't feel right
Jul 01 15:37:59 <EvilBob>    daMaestro: because I like having the ability to send people to the domain knowing that they will find what they are looking for
Jul 01 15:38:09 <daMaestro>    ok, well we will still have all the domains
Jul 01 15:38:16 <daMaestro>    and there are no namespace conflicts
Jul 01 15:38:42 <daMaestro>    from a technical standpoint, we are too segmented with *ZERO* benefit
Jul 01 15:38:56 <kanarip>    then what's the idea?
Jul 01 15:39:02 <daMaestro>    "finding" content could be fixed with a better navigation structure, EvilBob
Jul 01 15:39:03 <kanarip>    set them to the same backend storage?
Jul 01 15:39:04 <Corwyn>    What Jon is proposing will be consolidating the management and maintenence of the data, but still pointing to separate vhosts for the disposition of the information
Jul 01 15:39:16 <daMaestro>    kanarip, more or less.. yes
Jul 01 15:39:17 <EvilBob>    that *ZERO* is only your opinion because it makes a little more work
Jul 01 15:39:36 <daMaestro>    EvilBob, how is it more work for me when our managers can't move content around between sites?
Jul 01 15:39:36 <EvilBob>    Corwyn: no he is not
Jul 01 15:40:02 <daMaestro>    each domain will still be able to access any content.. but all of the content will be in the same plone instance
Jul 01 15:40:06 <EvilBob>    Corwyn: at lest not from what I have heard
Jul 01 15:40:24 <daMaestro>    http://fedorasolved.org/ and http://fedoramobile.org will be the *same* plone site
Jul 01 15:40:31 <daMaestro>    each having their own namespace..
Jul 01 15:40:38 <kanarip>    same content too?
Jul 01 15:40:42 <daMaestro>    fedorasolved.org/wireless and fedoramobile.org/wireless would work fine
Jul 01 15:40:43 <daMaestro>    kanarip, yes
Jul 01 15:40:48 <daMaestro>    all of our content into one plone site
Jul 01 15:40:49 <kanarip>    or can you still publish on one and hide on the other?
Jul 01 15:40:54 <EvilBob>    daMaestro: set up demo.<domains> and show us
Jul 01 15:41:06 <daMaestro>    how hard is it to see "all of our sites" into one
Jul 01 15:41:24 <Corwyn>    daMaestro: +1
Jul 01 15:41:28 <daMaestro>    i, personally, see absolutely *ZERO* benefit from segmenting our sites
Jul 01 15:41:35 <daMaestro>    especially when we have so little content
Jul 01 15:41:44 <daMaestro>    such a small contributor base
Jul 01 15:41:47 <kanarip>    you got a point daMaestro, but doesn't that make each of these sites have like huge amounts of content?
Jul 01 15:42:09 <daMaestro>    a perfect example, we have teams with "one member" for unity tasks
Jul 01 15:43:00 <daMaestro>    it's like, yea... that is all fine and dandy if we really have a blossoming team to manage.. but right now we are at the ... hmm 7-10 contributor mark.. and the separation of content and task has become a major blocker for us
Jul 01 15:43:29 <daMaestro>    when Southern_Gentlem is unable to move a post from fedorasolved.org -> fedoramobile.org (because he doesn't have access to the *master* ZMI) it is disruptive
Jul 01 15:43:38 <daMaestro>    or anyone without access for the matter
Jul 01 15:43:46 <kanarip>    daMaestro, that i agree with
Jul 01 15:43:54 <daMaestro>    and giving access to the master ZMI should be considered root access at this point
Jul 01 15:44:02 <kanarip>    but can the actual displayed content on domain1 still be different from domain2?
Jul 01 15:44:25 <kanarip>    like, just the documents, not even the Members/ dir
Jul 01 15:44:28 <EvilBob>    kanarip: no and we also lose all the per domain branding
Jul 01 15:44:37 <daMaestro>    we don't loose the per domain branding
Jul 01 15:44:45 <daMaestro>    we actually expand what each domain brands
Jul 01 15:44:57 <daMaestro>    kanarip, it could possibly be done...
Jul 01 15:45:02 <EvilBob>    thow it all in to one big pile
Jul 01 15:45:07 <daMaestro>    using some proxy techniques
Jul 01 15:45:15 <daMaestro>    EvilBob, why do you object so much?
Jul 01 15:45:24 <daMaestro>    we don't have that much content
Jul 01 15:45:25 <kanarip>    right
Jul 01 15:45:28 <kanarip>    hold on here...
Jul 01 15:45:36 <daMaestro>    and when i go to fedoramobile.org ... i see 2-5 posts
Jul 01 15:45:38 <daMaestro>    that is it
Jul 01 15:45:42 <EvilBob>    because the idea of the multiple domains pre dates you joining us
Jul 01 15:45:48 <daMaestro>    oh.. fedora unity.. they are great.. they have 5 posts
Jul 01 15:45:52 <kanarip>    i don't think EvilBob objects as much if the sites stay the same (to the eye) but use the same backend storage, right?
Jul 01 15:46:07 <AntonTakk>    daMaestro: build host is back up, was this morning
Jul 01 15:46:15 <daMaestro>    AntonTakk, meeting
Jul 01 15:46:15 <Corwyn>    to simplify the thinking on this, think of it as setting up vhosts, where each site is just a directory of the main residing within the same server instance, but pointing to different content, some aspects would be cooperative, others would be separate, but the moving of data would be easier in the long run (correct me if I'm wrong, Jon)
Jul 01 15:46:27 <EvilBob>    kanarip: right, the goals are/were much broader
Jul 01 15:46:48 <daMaestro>    well what Corwyn is saying is a compromise on what i want to do
Jul 01 15:46:55 <daMaestro>    what i want to do is this:
Jul 01 15:47:04 <daMaestro>    a) make everything one plone site
Jul 01 15:47:07 <EvilBob>    throw it all in to one big pile right Jon?
Jul 01 15:47:15 <daMaestro>    b) make custom dynamic "front pages" for each domain
Jul 01 15:47:38 <daMaestro>    c) make *every* document accessible via *all* of the domains.. in the same namespace
Jul 01 15:47:40 <Corwyn>    it's not exact, in terms of how plone handles it is different, but the idea is effectively the same principle from a straight httpd understanding
Jul 01 15:48:11 <daMaestro>    basically.. when you go to fedoramobile.org you will be getting a *sweet* frontpage that is just a "mash up" of all the fedora mobile content
Jul 01 15:48:25 <daMaestro>    but when you go to fedoramobile.org/video .. you can still access the video howtos
Jul 01 15:48:41 <kanarip>    that is what i understand as a huge pile
Jul 01 15:48:45 <daMaestro>    it is stupid, IMHO, to segment the sites; from an end users prospective and from a technical one
Jul 01 15:48:52 <EvilBob>    kanarip: it is a huge pile
Jul 01 15:48:58 <daMaestro>    if you want to call it a huge pile then fine
Jul 01 15:49:04 <kanarip>    can we get fedoramobile.org not to display the video/ link, for example?
Jul 01 15:49:05 <daMaestro>    right now we just have little piles of shit
Jul 01 15:49:09 <kanarip>    s/can/could/
Jul 01 15:49:10 <EvilBob>    kanarip: a huge stinky pile
Jul 01 15:49:12 <daMaestro>    kanarip, why would you want to?
Jul 01 15:49:18 <daMaestro>    why would you restrict that?
Jul 01 15:49:24 <daMaestro>    what if a user is looking for a ndis howto!??
Jul 01 15:49:29 <kanarip>    daMaestro, hold on
Jul 01 15:49:31 <daMaestro>    but also has a nvidia card?
Jul 01 15:49:42 <EvilBob>    I need to wrap this meeting up
Jul 01 15:49:45 <daMaestro>    i think we need to stop hiding all of the content we *do* have
Jul 01 15:49:58 <daMaestro>    well this seems like this topic needs to be discussed more
Jul 01 15:49:59 <Corwyn>    daMaestro: +`
Jul 01 15:50:03 <Corwyn>    er +1
Jul 01 15:50:14 <daMaestro>    and to answer you, EvilBob, NO i will not do all this work so you can "see" what i'd like to do
Jul 01 15:50:23 <kanarip>    so i was still trying to react to "why would you want to?"
Jul 01 15:50:35 <daMaestro>    sorry, it is just too much work for me to risk people saying "ha ha you wasted your time, we don't want that"
Jul 01 15:50:37 <EvilBob>    then you are the only one that fully understands what you want to do and the answer is NO
Jul 01 15:50:54 <daMaestro>    EvilBob, and you are the only person that objects 100% to the idea
Jul 01 15:50:59 <kanarip>    why aren't we discussing anything here?
Jul 01 15:51:05 <daMaestro>    EvilBob, and your objections are just being bullheaded
Jul 01 15:51:22 <EvilBob>    daMaestro: that is fine you feel that way
Jul 01 15:51:28 <daMaestro>    kanarip, to answer you.. yes we could technically have everything in one plone instance and have separate "sections"
Jul 01 15:51:33 <daMaestro>    EvilBob, i know it is ;-)
Jul 01 15:51:35 <daMaestro>    lol
Jul 01 15:51:46 <EvilBob>    daMaestro: the goals of multiple sites has been with us since day one
Jul 01 15:51:53 <daMaestro>    EvilBob, we pretend like we have some massive user base
Jul 01 15:51:55 <daMaestro>    EvilBob, we don't
Jul 01 15:52:04 <kanarip>    daMaestro, so wouldn't that solve EvilBob's objection of not having one huge pile, and still give you the flexible management?
Jul 01 15:52:10 <Corwyn>    Bob, that doesn't mean we shouldn't change for better operation of what we have
Jul 01 15:52:13 <daMaestro>    EvilBob, and rather then making it harder for our consumers.. we need to make our sites more useful
Jul 01 15:52:24 <Corwyn>    just because it's how it's been, doesn't mean it's how it should be
Jul 01 15:52:25 <daMaestro>    kanarip, i would think it does
Jul 01 15:52:30 <daMaestro>    kanarip, but who knows
Jul 01 15:52:32 <daMaestro>    ;-)
Jul 01 15:52:32 <daMaestro>    lol
Jul 01 15:52:40 <daMaestro>    ok.. well we can discuss this more outside of the meeting
Jul 01 15:52:41 <EvilBob>    daMaestro: the goals and dreams should not be abandoned IMO with out looking at all the options
Jul 01 15:52:51 *    daMaestro moves to move EvilBob to move the meeting to an end
Jul 01 15:52:51 <daMaestro>    lol
Jul 01 15:53:09 <daMaestro>    EvilBob, yeah; i know
Jul 01 15:53:34 <kanarip>    EvilBob, does it make sense to have like one database and management interface and then have separate domains with different content each?
Jul 01 15:53:54 <daMaestro>    well that is what we have now
Jul 01 15:53:54 <EvilBob>    kanarip: that I wold not have issue with if plone can do it
Jul 01 15:54:23 <EvilBob>    kanarip: a compromise between what we have now and what Jon wants is fine with me
Jul 01 15:54:27 <kanarip>    daMaestro, then how is it possible that you cannot copy/move data from one site to the other?
Jul 01 15:54:37 <kanarip>    daMaestro, if it's one database... you should be able to
Jul 01 15:54:46 <daMaestro>    kanarip, they are separate plone instances
Jul 01 15:54:51 <EvilBob>    kanarip: the problem is in who can make that move
Jul 01 15:54:55 <daMaestro>    kanarip, it is one DB.. it always has been
Jul 01 15:54:57 <daMaestro>    the ZODB
Jul 01 15:55:03 <kanarip>    ok
Jul 01 15:55:09 <daMaestro>    but you can't magically make your CMS do something it is not designed to do
Jul 01 15:55:09 <EvilBob>    kanarip: at this time the only one that can make that move is daMaestro
Jul 01 15:55:17 <kanarip>    so can a single plone instance handle multiple domains?
Jul 01 15:55:28 <daMaestro>    kanarip, yes.. and that is what i am asking for
Jul 01 15:55:40 <EvilBob>    daMaestro: but with out the big pile
Jul 01 15:55:40 <daMaestro>    kanarip, i want a full namespace.. as EvilBob has put it: a big pile of shit
Jul 01 15:55:44 <kanarip>    well our question was...
Jul 01 15:55:50 <kanarip>    hold on both of you ;-)
Jul 01 15:55:53 <daMaestro>    lol
Jul 01 15:55:57 *    daMaestro stab stab stab EvilBob
Jul 01 15:56:05 <Corwyn>    Jon, stop
Jul 01 15:56:06 <Corwyn>    lol
Jul 01 15:56:09 <EvilBob>    </meeting>